Curse

Episodicfreak · Jun 24, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

...then for the sake of the party I will let the moron rot on the ground.
Play as a team - or die alone.

That's what's going to keep happening if others don't respect the monk's energy and skills. I've read all the posts in this topic and yeah the others dont get praised, but other guild members have been telling me they've all had praise for their abilities to shut down and take damage and protect the squishies (amazing words btw

). It is so rewarding to heal the party and protect them from harm, but it's also so damn frustrating when it goes wrong and all you get is completely slated. It's never anyone elses fault for attacking too hgh lvl monsters for the group, or for not doing enough damage to take it own fast enough or to work as a team on the same target, it's the monk for not spamming heal because its energy is shot to pieces..

Night · Jun 24, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

U know I just started a monk a couple days of ago and have him at 13 or 14 and my observations are this:

1) He's the most sought after char yet he is the only character in which during a mission some one will actually ask or tell him to do his job ie "Heal me please" or "Res. Me". As a warrior, ranger, and elementalist, I have yet to be asked to shoot arrows, hit Mob with Firestorm/meteror/ whatever, or swing sword at Mob. The funniest comment I think I have heard to date is "Do you have res?". I am a monk for crying out loud and unless I say I am smiting monk or maybe even a protection (even then I think every monk class, primary or otherwise should reserve one spot for res.), yes I am going to have res equipped.

2) No matter who is at fault, the monk in my experience is the first to get blamed when folks start taking in damage or get killed, never mind the fact that they go outta of the range of the healer or they split into groups.

3) Of the pugs I have done, only one group actually thanked me for keeping them alive as it was quite an adventure to say the least. This group was the least experienced from what I could tell but did their best. An occasional misstep but nothing too bad we couldn't recover from. My more seasoned groups though seem to be a different animal.

4) I realize at times we lose our heads but the worst thing for me is folks who seem to drag a train to me in an effort to get away. One or 2 beasties, I am fine as all I do is cast mend on myself but when they drag 5 or 6 of the minataurs and then do absolutely nothing to help get them off, I get into some trouble.

Ok rant over. i guess I am going to have to get into the habit of letting those that repeat the same mistakes over stay laying down. Also I am going to start saying after some asks me to heal or res, "Please start killing the monsters." or "Man you warriors suck. Why are you killing them in 2 hits? Whats wrong the elementalist? How come your meteror or pheonix isn't burning them to cinders in shot?"

nechronius · Jun 24, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

except spell correctly appearantly

When correcting somebody for their misspelling, you need to make sure to not commit the same mistake.

A real-life friend of mine and I are playing monks and the experience has been interesting. Since we're on the phone when we play, it's easy to coordinate and organize healing assignments and priorities. Makes for a low-stress monk experience.

I have made two observations though.

1. There's a lot of monks in the lower levels. We just reached Sanctum Cay now at just under level 16 and the ratio of monks has been steadily dropping off. Either a lot of people are giving up on monks somewhere after the Henge of Denravi or there's going to be a big surge of monks in the coming weeks.

2. You definitely don't get to enjoy the environment as much. Not too big of a deal though as this is his third character and my fourth. The need to closely monitor the vitals of every player has forced me to adapt to a different interface however.

fleeb · Jun 24, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I decided that I should try to become familiar with all the various classes, that I might better understand how the game works, the general feel for a class, and so on.

Prior to embarking on this, I'd primarily played a monk/elementist, so I have some idea what it's like to play as an elementist and a monk (my PvP character is a pure elementist, so I have become familiar with the mounds of energy my monk could only drool over).

Playing my mesmer/warrior (*twitch*) taught me some interesting things about both the warrior class and mesmers:

1. Mesmers should scare the hell out of monks.
2. Warriors are 'encouraged' to rush to the next MOB by the nature of their skill set; adrenaline has to be built up, and wears off while the monk is busy recharging.

Mesmers should scare monks because, quite frankly, they can eat a monk's energy pool alive. I'm very thankful that the mobs don't generally take this tactic.. although at one point in the game, they do manage to destroy my ability to use my primary healing skills by spamming the monk with a skill that will make my next attempt to use a skill require 120 seconds recharge time! Absolutely evil. When I'm playing a monk, I want mesmers and rangers dead, fast.

When I played my mesmer more as a warrior (which is silly, but it's kind of fun if you aren't too worried about constantly dying because mesmers make terrible warriors), I found myself wanting to rush to the next mob to take advantage of the adrenaline I'd saved up. It required significant restraint and maturity to look at my health bar, recognize that I'd probably get disembowled, and hold myself back while I regain my health.

I don't know exactly how best to use this information when dealing with other players who don't understand the monks' various weaknesses, but it might go a long way towards explaining the behavior you see from some warriors.

Shoujo · Jun 24, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Is it just me or do monks expect to be thanked for doing their job? Other classes don't seem to think this is such an issue for their class. What's so special about the monk? Just curious.

Note: I've played a monk and it was rewarding enough in and of itself to not require any external encouragement.

KaPe · Jun 24, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

" What's so special about the monk? Just curious."

Special is that they are most "party based" of all classes. You are warrior - you kill. You are Elementalist - you kill. Get the idea? Whereas monk work for entire party - plus it's somewhat tiring and borind job.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 24, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

If we take the basic equation:
Lack of skill = a
clueless = b
arrogantly stupid = c

We can determine how many monks are required for the atypical player as follows;

a(bc)
________ = monk desirability2
idiot level

Every class has a healing ability, several combinations come within a hair's breadth of being as healing friendly as a monk, and yet we have the hue and cry for dedicated healers to accomodate the overall populations lack of any real playing skill.

We need a higher overall level of playing skill for our players - not more monks.
Please feel free to illustrate all the "Impossible" situations where only an entire group of monks and nothing else can prevail.

Remember, you don't need healing if your foe is dead and you are not.

Talesin

EmperorTippy · Jun 25, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

When correcting somebody for their misspelling, you need to make sure to not commit the same mistake.

A real-life friend of mine and I are playing monks and the experience has been interesting. Since we're on the phone when we play, it's easy to coordinate and organize healing assignments and priorities. Makes for a low-stress monk experience.

I have made two observations though.

1. There's a lot of monks in the lower levels. We just reached Sanctum Cay now at just under level 16 and the ratio of monks has been steadily dropping off. Either a lot of people are giving up on monks somewhere after the Henge of Denravi or there's going to be a big surge of monks in the coming weeks.

2. You definitely don't get to enjoy the environment as much. Not too big of a deal though as this is his third character and my fourth. The need to closely monitor the vitals of every player has forced me to adapt to a different interface however.

Yes I do. Sorry about that. I was very tired ATM.

Alathys Tylderaan · Jun 25, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

The problem with each class having a healing skill is that these skills are attribute dependent..

Ranger: Wilderness Survival
Warrior: Tactics (Who uses tactics anymore?)
Ele: Energy Storage (viable option)
Mesmer: Inspiration
Necro: Many various skills, usually blood magic, a popular choice.

So really Mesmers, Warriors and to some extent Rangers, all have quite useless self healing spells, considering that the attributes they require are not very popular ones.

The warrior option is particularly bad because of the armour loss while using the skill, and a warrior mostly needs healing when he's taking damage already.

If these skills were to be converted into the primary attribute of the class, it would be a much more viable option for most.

Sair · Jun 25, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Finding a monk requires clever advertising. Two of my most successful appeals:

"Want to give your healing skills a good workout? Join us!"

We had a monk in less than 10 seconds. Another pitch:

"Group in desperate need of a monk because we suck!"

Immediately got whispers from two monks!

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. People are much more likely to respond to someone who seems interesting, or at least nice.

dragonyy · Jun 25, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I understand that every group far into the game are seeking monks, that's why I started a monk. But being a monk is tough, I think it's easier for a party to find a good monk then for a monk to find a good party. A monk is useless when you team up with 7 mindless idiots who don't cordinate their attacks. Oh and everyone blames him...

BladeX3I · Jun 25, 2005, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonyy

I understand that every group far into the game are seeking monks, that's why I started a monk. But being a monk is tough, I think it's easier for a party to find a good monk then for a monk to find a good party. A monk is useless when you team up with 7 mindless idiots who don't cordinate their attacks. Oh and everyone blames him...

When I am looking for a group with my monk. I try to make the team myself. I would rather be in a team that is more balanced for what I can handle than the team that has 4 warriors and 3 rangers that is screeming "NEED MONK 4 GROUP"

I don't like logging into a zone and seeing that I have 3 group invites waiting already. No pm or anything. I don't get it. do you people get the rest of your team like that?

Barraind · Jun 25, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Warrior: Tactics (Who uses tactics anymore?)

Tanking in any content I dont just overpower everything (fire isles, uw, fissure for the most part) i run tactics for Watch yourself and Bonetti's. Losing a small amount of damage by dropping strength points and whatever attack skills dont work well (why take gash+rend vs a mission with almost no fleshy mobs, ect) is more than made up for several times by the tactics skills.

Warriors that swear off defense oriented skills due to how "useless" they are make me sad.

And on my monk, I've only had a couple bad experiences.

My response to the "why didnt you heal me" question was "If you werent trying to do things the stupidest way possible, I probably could have" (elem + nec + mez + war trying to each tank 3-4 mobs, while spread out far enough that all of them werent in range of me at the same time)

Episodicfreak · Jun 25, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoujo

Is it just me or do monks expect to be thanked for doing their job? Other classes don't seem to think this is such an issue for their class. What's so special about the monk? Just curious.

I don't expect to be thanked, I just don't expect to be blamed for my massive failure if you die and your dp goes through the roof...

Sentinel · Jun 27, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Every class has a healing ability, several combinations come within a hair's breadth of being as healing friendly as a monk, and yet we have the hue and cry for dedicated healers to accomodate the overall populations lack of any real playing skill.

We need a higher overall level of playing skill for our players - not more monks.
Please feel free to illustrate all the "Impossible" situations where only an entire group of monks and nothing else can prevail.

Remember, you don't need healing if your foe is dead and you are not.

Talesin

I agree with you about needing more playing skill from players.

But I disagree with you that a secondary monk is as effective or close to in healing as a primary monk. There is just no way. 12 healing and 12 divine favor give you 151 + 61 healing when you use Heal Other....3/4sec cast, every 3 sec.. Combine that with things you can carry that improve skill recharge and casting time and you are not even close.

Another issue that i have with secondary monks is that while their using their secondary healing skills there are not doing their primary job which in most cases is to deal damage. Nothing more annoying to see a W that you monitor closely hit his Healing Signet just because his health bar dropped a bit. That means longer time in a fight which can be realy stressfull for energy dependent chars.

In my view a good team with a primary healer will always do better than a good team with no primary healer.
As far as a team with all monks doing well or not, you will be suprised. 2 primary healers and the rest smiting/protection and you better watch out.
Wasn't a team of 1 W and 7 monks that held the HoH for 8 something hours?
Search for that thread in here.

For the record, my first char was a W/M and whenever I was in a group with a competent monk I never had to touch my healing skills. I did carry them with me all the time though for the times when the group/monk wasn't as good. Most of the times all that did was to make sure I was the last to die...lol

Anyway, I don't expect a 'thank you' either because at the end of the day it's teamwork that saves the day and wins missions. All i say at the end is 'gj all'

Sent

Calimar · Jun 27, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Point with monks is not that there's just one class of monks. You can add another 5 healer classes, won't matter. After all, in PvE there's rarely the need of a second monk, and even secondary monks are just as good - if they're prepared. I mean, I'll go anywhere with two secondary monks IF they are prepared to be healers.

The real point is that most people don't WANT to be healers. First, most idiots keep giving monks advice (how stupid) and forget how MUCH difference it makes to have or not have a monk in your party. I'm raising a Ne/Mo and I took solo adventuring without alesia (took just the warrior) and I tell you - until I started learning how to do it, I died CONSTANTLY.

Who wants to pass the entire adventuring time spamming healing on people that have absolutely no clue on how to keep *themselves* alive? I recently run the Frost Gate mission with a group of 6. Of these, me and the monk stayed alive, the rest reached end of adventure at -60%DP. I *never* died - why? the monk liked me? hardly.

Most people THINK they're great players, and are so ready to "accuse" others of being "noobs". I never use that word except in reference to MYSELF

What is really lacking is humility and maturity - but considering most players are under 16, it's probably asking too much.

Just my not even remotely humble opinion

"Be nice to your monk" stickers can be bought calling 1-800-STUPIDWARRIOR (jk).
Calimar

A monk that starts healing when half the group is under 50%, or when 2 people are dead, is failing in doing his job.

Mistress Dasha · Jun 27, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

The key to doing anythings succesful is thoughtful planning, communication, listening skills, and your brain..

I play a Healing Prayers/Interuption PVE Mo/Me and I enjoy being the healer I enjoy anticipating my groups movements and I want groups to test my monk's abilities... I dont need or want respect from people I want to play a game.

ZigZag Rollmeister · Jun 27, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Having read some of the earlier posts here.....I find it incredibly hypocritical that the monks here would flail people for typing "Heal plz"....or "Res Plz".

You monks should know as well as anyone how many idiot newbs are out there aggroing multiple groups on missions. In fact, many of you have documented that in this very thread.

Seriously....doing missions with other players involves a certain level of anxiety since it seems like almost every group has at least ONE BAD NEWB.

So tell me monks of the world......your job is to keep the party members alive.

ARE WE TO JUST BLINDLY ASSUME THAT YOU'RE NOT THE SAME NEWB WHO AGGRO'ED ENTIRE MISSIONS WHEN YOU WERE PLAYING YOUR WARRIOR ALT?

Seriously....are ALL monks veteran, elite players?

Of course not. Even good monks can lose track of health bars sometimes.

Getting pissed because someone is telling you to perform on of your basic funcitions? Remember, it's not like telling a warrior to swing his axe. It's more like telling a warrior to attack a specific MOB. Or telling a ranger and/or mesmer to focus on interrupts.

So don't take the "Heal me plz" lines so seriously.

(I do concede though, that you've gotta be a newb if you're asking for res)

Drakron · Jun 27, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Every class has a healing ability ...

I have to pick on this, Elementars healing ability is useless and Elementars tend to be in the top of the mobs hate list.

I survive, I dont ask monks special favors but I have seen monks that simply dont heal and if the team have 2 warriors, 3 elementars, 1 necromancer and 2 rangers they sould realize the team have enough firepower to beat the crap out whatever comes their way but they need some healing, we dont need a fully dedicated smithing monk.

Sentinel · Jun 27, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

ZigZag,

I don't know what your point is. Let me respond with some general comments.
When i started this game with my W/M it took me until Yak's bend to realise
I am not the all mighty Konan the Barbarian that can plow through anything with out regard to fellow party members and such....

I learned to watch my aggro circle at all times. I learned that pulling a mob to me was always better than going to them. I listened to others and attacked the same target as others. By the time I reached Kryta I knew what my role was in groups. MEAT SHIELD. Keep the nasties on me, hack at them, while the casters did most of the damage and kept me healthy.

I mean, at what point we should expect for all players to know what target calling means and how to react on a called target?

It just baffles me, that for some, that's a hard concept to understand. I see,
what you call "idiot newbs", all the way to Hell's precipise. It's just baffling.
I'm not a veteran and I'm not elite.I don't even know what that means. I just came to realise what works and what doesn't in this game early.

I think this thread has become more about the frustration of being a Monk. Healing monks are in a unique position by trade. They know where the whole group is and what it's doing and they are the first to know what went wrong.
Believe me when I tell you this: I'm the first to know how many "idiot newbs" a group has and who they are.
Now, i wasn't aware of any of this about Monks until I started playing one so
your opinion may vary depending on your experience.

And unless the healer is incompetent or absent minded asking a healer to heal you is plain insulting. I know better than you if you need a heal or not. I have my own energy bar to manage and I'm not going to waste a heal spell on you because your health bar dropped a little...boo hoo. Concetrate on your job and let me do mine. We are into this together so keeping you healthy is for my own good too.

Ahh...just some random thoughts to share....no big! lol

Sent.-